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Saxon army at Danzig 1807

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  • #46
    I think we suffer from a communication brake down on straight versus curved lapels.
    Straight lapels are for me - lapels like in the French Bardin coat or Prussian coat of 1806.
    As I told before - the theory of the old coats in 1791 was that they could be hooked down to the front and the lapels crossed over, due to fashion this was hardly possible any longer in like the French Army.
    In the Saxon Army however it seems that due to the more ample cut this could be done still in later periods.
    This gave them in 1806 / 07 a more old fashioned look than compared to other armies.
    As Scharnhorst writes however this old fashioned cut gave a better protection against cold as the too tight and too much cut to the rear coats of the more modern coats.
    The front cut - the body line - falling back to the rear and prohibiting the closing down all to the bottom - dictaded the shape of the lapels.


    • #47
      Now I understand your opinion. You're right that altought internet is good source of knowladge and way of communication, but somtimes serious misunderstanding arisie.
      Yes I agree with you. Althougt I thought that Scharnhorst wrote that Saxons uniformes were the worst he has ever seen ("(...)entschpricht die Bekleidung der sachsischen soldaten, besonders des infateristen, unter allen denen, die ich in verschidenen Armeen habe kennen gelernt, diesen Zweck am meisten."). I dont's speak German very well - but do I understand this sentence properly: "unfiroms especially of saxon infantry were the worst in soldier's protection I have seen in my life"? I have even checked in my dictionary.

      A few lines below Scharhorst writes that assembling "armeln" to waistcoats gave saxon infantrymen better protection from cold and bad weather.

      I assume that we agree about shape of lapels - Prussian of pre 1801 period and Saxon were not the same one? I think that we agree that saxon unfiorm cut was outdated to Prussian since 1756 or at last from 1786. That's why Scharnhorst writes about outdated Saxon uniformes. Saxon Rocks are also outdatet to French since 1791 (al last theoretically because Frenchemn had great problems with unifiing their uniformes). They are also outdated by Bavarians (since 1785 Rumford coat, and 1799 coat) and even by Crown Polish Army (since 1791) and if I remember correctly by Wurtembergers, Austrians (since 1769 or 1798), British, Russians (from 1805) etc. So Saxon Rocks became old-fashioned in 1780's-90's. Even if not all armies changed their uniformes we may assume that it was percived as old-fashioned. That's i think Scharnhorst in 1790's complains about old style of Saxon uniform. In 1809 such uniform must be really interesting for recruits for whom Saxon infantrymen was walking history

      But there is oe more interesting matter - collars. Somtimes they are standing sometimes not - do you have some theory?

      Best Regards


      • #48

        I think you misunderstood Scharnhort - unter allen - means - amongst all - and he means that amongst all uniforms he has seem the SaXon uniform gives - despite ist Altfränkischen cut - the best protection against cold and bad weather, so indeed a praise and not a critic.


        • #49
          Yes I admit that I though that he said that Saxon uniformes were the worst. So I completly misunderstood Scharnohorst intentions. Thank you very much for explanation! That's very good information for me
          And one more question if you are not bored by my meesages - do you have some sketches of Saxon muskets - my collegue is looking for some information about them but I unfortunatelly don't have anything despite some general information about caliber weight etc (and besides picture of Neushuller in osprey but... you know... ).



          • #50
            I think I have some black and white drawings, I will have a look, otherwise get in direct communication with Da Capo who certainly knows 10 times more about the Saxon Army than me.