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Reenactment in Jena am 14.10.2006

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  • #61
    Schau hier: http://www.1806-1807.napoleon-online...tegory&catid=6
    LG Berit

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    • #62
      das schöne an einigen der Chasseurs à Cheval der Garde, die trugen den Rock und nicht immer den Dolman, die Nachzügler denke ich sind nichts anderes als Kavalleristen zu Fuß, die eben keine Pferde mehr bekamen.

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      • #63
        Photos vom Biwak

        So, die ersten Biwakphotos habe ich online gestellt, weitere werden in Kürze folgen ... siehe hier: http://www.1806-1807.napoleon-online...tegory&catid=6
        "Wenn wir geboren werden, weinen wir, weil wir diese große Narrenbühne betreten" (King Lear) ... jedem also sein ganz persönliches (Hof-) Narrenleben

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        • #64
          Auweia - da fallen gleich wieder die vollkommenen blödsinningen Brotbeutel bei den Franzosen wieder auf

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          • #65
            Zitat von HKDW Beitrag anzeigen
            Austerlitz was :card: - never ever again, a total failure of the organisation how to feed the men - for break fast, for food on the battle field and so on, as well as the battle was badly directed.
            What I hear of Pultusk the same story again, generals and other brass in top class hotels and the troops smoldering in the heat
            I will also post my short answer in english, sorry for that. Isn't it a bit exaggerated to write that "Austerlitz was a total failure of the organization"? You haven't been to Pultusk, but you "hear"...?

            Nothing and nobody is perfect. Austerlitz 2005 has been a unique event of 3600 men and 200 horses, everybody survived, everybody was accomodated, everybody was partially reimboursed, everybody did get some food, though the food distribution really was very bad organized. The battle was very well directed, but some formations and some units simply did not respect orders or/and their commanders were passive, that's all... the majority of units did follow the orders and the simple but historical scenario has been followed with a great success. And even better it was at Pultusk. At least everybody knew his place in the order of battle and the name of his superior.

            Jena was great and many thanks to the organizers to have prepared and realized that event. What they did not do at all, almost at all, was exactly the order of battle, army structure, staff service, and a feasible scenario... I don't think the army did execute the "Rochade" previewed by the complicated scenario written only in german, etc. The battle has been just a game, a spectacle... it was re-enactment only up to the level of peloton, nothing has been done above. Even so I call it sucess and I am grateful to be there, 200 years after.

            Besr regards

            Jakub Samek
            Project Austerlitz

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            • #66
              Dear Jakub

              Yes - I still instist that Austerlitz was one of the worst big events I ever took part in, and I take part in events since 1982, the organisters of Austerlitz did not cope with a lot of things, and as for Pultusk I am glad to have missed it.

              May I add that Austerlitz was a chaos compared to Jena at the battle - field, at least it succeeded at - what you term peloton level, while Austelitz did not succeed in anything like that.
              Zuletzt geändert von HKDW; 21.10.2006, 19:36.

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              • #67
                Chacun a son gout dear Hans Karl, but your opinion is quite rare, I must say.

                "May I add that Austerlitz was a chaos compared to Jena at the battle - field, at least it succeeded at - what you term peloton level, while Austelitz did not succeed in anything like that"

                That simply is not truth I don't know what has been your position on the battlefield of Austerlitz, a chasseur, maybe a serre-file in the peloton of the 9e? I have commanded a battalion of three pelotons, 90 men together. And outside the battlefield I have been chef de l'état-major général, we have formed 4 'battalions' on the right wing, ENS and CENS troops together. Two of them were rather big pelotons maneuvering after the école de peloton, the other two were real reduced battalions, following all principles of the réglement (far from being perfect, of course). The russo-french division Saint-Hilaire under Sokolov has been formed in a similar way, and it also did execute the ordered maneuvre. Your division commander has been Marius Franke and your division did have a structure given by our friends Martin Lancaster, Gernot and Paul Elliott. It has formed the left wing of Sokolov's corps and your maneuvre has been quite simple, any chaos there has not been caused by "the organization"...

                Everybody knew the structure of the army, everybody knew his commander, everybody knew the commander in chief (though hommes du rang may have ignored this information). The commanders of the "corps" and the commanders of the "divisions" knew the scenario, and the battle did follow it. I know it, I've been there I don't know what happend on the far left of the army, but I have read several reports (from the corps commander Sokolov and from the commander in chief him-self), and I can imagine what made you so unhappy about the event. It was not our fault.

                To succeed in the peloton level is not any merit of the organizers, it is automatic in the re-enactment, every single group forms a peloton. But nobody is able to direct and command these very different pelotons in a battle, if there is no system established. We've tried to use one at Austerlitz and at Pultusk, wasn't perfect, but it worked quite well. And it has been confirmed not only by many participants, but also by spectators-military historians and enthousiasts, they did recognise the "reduced battle of Austerlitz".

                Let's stop this discussion, it is evident that "something went wrong" on the left wing of the army, I am sorry you did not enjoy the battle. But your statements are so extreme and so determined, that I felt necessary to answer. Sorry to take you time and sorry to write english here.

                Best regards

                Jakub

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                • #68
                  Your statements just proove my arguments.

                  Have you ever been re-enacting as a soldier or taking part in such events in the rank and file - for about 10 years?

                  Or are you just interested do use human re-enactors to fullfill your dreams of commanding and using them like toy soldiers?

                  At Austerlitz I had pretty much the feel that there were some egomaniacs just doing this without taking in any regards of the soldiers.
                  For me - in obvious contrast to you - the most important people are the soldiers and the unit commanders, staff boys like you are not important whatsoever.

                  Next, don't forget - we are just playing this, you are neither an officer, than I am one - only because somebody is carrying some gold or silver on the uniform doesn't make him automatically more important - than those carrying muskets.

                  I could drole one, but I agree, this is not the place and the thread to clash with our wills.

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                  • #69
                    Mal wieder was zu Jena 2006
                    Angehängte Dateien

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                    • #70
                      Biwak & Gedenkfeier

                      Stattliche Einheit die 9ème ... einem Teil der Einheit habe ich auch bei den nun fertigen Photos zum Biwak und zur Gedenkfeier "ein Denkmal" gesetzt ... siehe hier: http://www.1806-1807.napoleon-online...egory&catid=10

                      Markus Stein
                      "Wenn wir geboren werden, weinen wir, weil wir diese große Narrenbühne betreten" (King Lear) ... jedem also sein ganz persönliches (Hof-) Narrenleben

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                      • #71

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                        • #72
                          Und hier noch ein Bild der 22e demi-brigade de ligne, von Igor Pahomov gemacht. Soweit ich das übersehen konnte, waren wir die einzige Einheit, die in Jena dreigliedrig manövrierte. Im Gefecht probierte wir das feu de deux rangs aus, bei dem nur die ersten beiden Glieder feuern, und das dritte die Gewehre für das zweite Glied lädt.


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                          • #73
                            Finde auch das der 9eme grossartig aussieht... genau so wie dem 8ème aus Belgien. Meiner Meinung nach, einer der besten Re-enactmentgruppen die eine Französische Einheit ausbildet.

                            Bin letzter Wochenende bei Freunde gewesen, und die hatten auch Foto's von Jena. Hoffentlich habe ich die dieser Woche online.

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                            • #74
                              Leder interessieren sich nur die allerwenigsten für eine gute Gefechtsdarstellung, Hollywood ist in der Regel angesagt, Salvenfeuer, niederkniendes 1. Glied, eben anstatt in 3 Glieder und feu de deux rangs, diese Feuerart wurde ja sehr häufig bei den Franzosen verwendet.

                              Hier, L'incomparable bei Marengo 2000, 3gliedrig, feu de deux rangs
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                              • #75
                                Feu de 2 rangs

                                Hans-Karl

                                Wir haben auch ds Feu de 2 Rangs in Austerlitz durchgeführt.

                                Schöne Grüße
                                PY

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