Struktur Preußische Infanterie 1806

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  • Sans-Souci
    Erfahrener Benutzer
    Major
    • 01.10.2006
    • 1841

    #16
    So you will find the list of officers (including Captaine Mey) in the Infanterie-Regiment von Lettow in the army list of 1803:

    Rangliste der Königlich Preussischen Armee für das Jahr 1803.
    Berlin, 1803.

    Kommentar

    • DK Young
      Neuer Benutzer
      Cantinière
      • 28.03.2008
      • 9

      #17
      Thank you for your help. I apologize for the poor translation. I had used Babblefish on AltaVista for that purpose. I greatly admire your multilingual abilities. As for my Grandfather's unit, I found the Rangliste on the Adelsforshung website, and I found Markus's picture of the officer and soldier for Nr 41, which includes a description of the unit. The record I have is hard to read, but now I am confident that it states "Johann Heinrich Nenker grenadier [unter]off. capitain v. May [umlaut over y] compagnie P....d Grenadier Bataillon von Lettow Herford" The page was taped, but some words are slightly visible. It does not appear to mention von Borstell. Since Lettow did not command this unit until September, 1804, I assume that the record was made after that time. The document has the usual additions, which include death dates. It makes sense that he was in the Grenadier Herford, which as I understand it was garrisoned in Minden (is this right or was it Herford?). I also have assumed that Nenker was an unteroffizier because the family was not among the nobility as far as i know. Another question - When Minden became part of the Kingdom of Westphalia, what happened to the soldiers whose military allegiance was to Prussia, but whose homes and families became part of the Kingdom of Westphalia. Am I correct that Porta Westphalia was part of the new kingdom, along with Minden? Thank you for all your help and your patience.
      DK Young

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      • Sans-Souci
        Erfahrener Benutzer
        Major
        • 01.10.2006
        • 1841

        #18
        Could you post a scan of the inscription here ?

        Kommentar

        • DK Young
          Neuer Benutzer
          Cantinière
          • 28.03.2008
          • 9

          #19
          I believe I have attached the record here, if I did this right. As I understand it, it reads:
          Johann Heinrich Nenker grenadier ?unter?
          off. Capitain v. May companie P...d
          grenadier Battaillon von Lettow ?Herford (probably wrong)?
          und (?) (?) No. 1 ?Truau? Holzhausen
          und P... Louise Marie Charlotte geboren Stuehmeyer
          (?) No. 14 ?Truau? Costedt
          - if you look at Costedt, you can see that the first "t" is the same as the "t"s in Lettow. I am probably wrong about Herford, as I see what you mean about the name - Herford would not have been mentioned and I would assume he was garrisoned at Minden.
          DK Young

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          • Sans-Souci
            Erfahrener Benutzer
            Major
            • 01.10.2006
            • 1841

            #20
            My interpretation is (what I can't read or decypher for sure in in square brackets):

            Johann Heinrich [Nenker - or Nentzer ?] Grenad[ier xxx]
            [maybe: off. - or an abbreviation: dh. or ds.] Capitain v. May Compagnie [xxx]
            Grenadier Bataillon von Sobbe zu [xxx]
            und h[xxx] bey [= bei] No. 1 [T?u?schaft ???]
            und der /Louise/ Marie Charlotte gebohren [= geborene]
            [von ?] No. 14 [T?u?schaft ??? - same word as above] [Coolede ?]
            Major Georg Diedrich von Sobbe (of the regiment No. 10) commanded the Grenadier-Bataillon from 28/2 1799 to 18/5 1803.
            Angehängte Dateien
            Zuletzt geändert von Sans-Souci; 30.03.2008, 19:20.

            Kommentar

            • DK Young
              Neuer Benutzer
              Cantinière
              • 28.03.2008
              • 9

              #21
              Thank you! The interpretation of "Sobbe zu" in place of Lettow makes more sense, as I originally thought that the first letter was an S, as it was the sam as in the Sept. entry in the previous column. Note, however, that the record was from Sept., a month after Borstell took command. I am certain that the last word is "Costedt" it is the town in Porta Westfalica where they later lived. The records are from Holzhausen. The phrase "und h[xxx] bey [= bei] No. 1" is used in the first column of the record (not shown above) and it is something associated with the place they lived. I looked at a copy of "Kampfhandlungen Der Brandenburgisch Preussischen Armee" It appears that they were garrisoned in Minden in 1799 and 1800 and then Herford 1801 - 1806. It states Kampfhandlungen 1806 Jena Gren. (-Sch) 14.10, Luebeck Gren. (-V) 6.11, Ratekau Gren. (Kap.) 7.11, Oldendorf R. (100) (=S) 17.11, Hameln R. (Kap.) 22.11 and Nienburg III (Kap.) 26.11.
              I understand the placenames, dates and that Kap. is Kapitulation, but what do the other abbrev. mean and what does Gren. mean?
              Was the Grenadierbattailon disbanded after the defeat at Nienburg? It appears that Nenker did not have children between 1803 and 1808, so he returned to his wife in 1807/8.

              Also, the family name became or had been Nenneker. This man's grandson, Wilhelm Nenneker, served during the 7 Weeks War in 1866 and then the Franco-Prussian War, then came to America in 1871, after he was discharged from the Army.
              Thank you again!!!!
              DK Young

              Kommentar

              • Sans-Souci
                Erfahrener Benutzer
                Major
                • 01.10.2006
                • 1841

                #22
                1806
                Jena Gren. (-Sch) 14.10, [- = they lost; Sch = Schlacht = battle]
                Luebeck Gren. (-V) 6.11, [- = they lost, V = Verteidigung = defense of the town]
                Ratekau Gren. (Kap.) 7.11, [the grenadiers capitulated and were dissolved]
                Oldendorf R. (100) (=S) 17.11, [= = undecided; S = Scharmützel = skirmish; "R. (100)" 100 men of the regiment= 1 company]
                Hameln R. (Kap.) 22.11 and [the regiment capitulated = 1st and 2nd battalion, but without grenadiers, who had been at Jena at Lübeck as part of the battalion von Borstell]
                Nienburg III (Kap.) 26.11. [the 3rd (depot) battalion capitulated]

                Priesdorff (No. 1171) gives Georg Dietrich von Sobbe as commander of the grenadiers from 1st June 1799, and also until 18th May 1803. Maybe for some reason von Borstell had not yet arrived with the battalion by September 1803.

                Kommentar

                • Sans-Souci
                  Erfahrener Benutzer
                  Major
                  • 01.10.2006
                  • 1841

                  #23
                  Attached the first columns of the entry.
                  Angehängte Dateien

                  Kommentar

                  • DK Young
                    Neuer Benutzer
                    Cantinière
                    • 28.03.2008
                    • 9

                    #24
                    Oliver,
                    You have my sincere thanks and appreciation for all your help. This is all very interesting and gives me something new to study. I plan to retrieve additional baptismal records of his other children, which may provide better details.
                    Thank you! This is a great site!
                    Kent
                    (DK Young)

                    Kommentar

                    • DK Young
                      Neuer Benutzer
                      Cantinière
                      • 28.03.2008
                      • 9

                      #25
                      In den Jahren um 1795, wie wurde ein Mann beschlossen, in eine Grenadier-Compagnie gelegt zu werden? Was war die Länge einer Eintragung zu dieser Zeit?
                      (In the years surrounding 1795, how was a man chosen to be placed in a Grenadier Company? What was the length of a typical enlistment?

                      Kommentar

                      • Sans-Souci
                        Erfahrener Benutzer
                        Major
                        • 01.10.2006
                        • 1841

                        #26
                        The obligation to serve in the army ended when the man was no longer fit for it, or with reaching the age of 46 (Canton Reglement of 12th February 1792, §. 52).

                        But basically, the period of service should not have exceeded 20 years, 1 year of campaign counting for 2 years (Canton Reglement, §§. 90, 912).

                        You will find more details on in the original text (starts with image 69):

                        Kommentar

                        • DK Young
                          Neuer Benutzer
                          Cantinière
                          • 28.03.2008
                          • 9

                          #27
                          I apologize, as I am not doing well with my translations. It is my understanding that service was not mandatory for all men at that time. If a man enlisted, was it for a 20 year term or an equivalent or until he reached the age of 46, or could he sign on for shorter terms, such as 4 or 6 years? Also, would a man be placed directly into a Grenadier unit or were they chosen from experienced men of other units?
                          Oli, sorry that this is in English and thank you again for the help!
                          Kent

                          Kommentar

                          • Sans-Souci
                            Erfahrener Benutzer
                            Major
                            • 01.10.2006
                            • 1841

                            #28
                            From the Osprey Warrior on the "Prussian Regular Infantryman 1808-1815":

                            Conscription.

                            Conscription was regulated by the Kantonreglement of 12th February 1792, issued by Friedrich Wilhelm II. In its introduction the king pointed out the obligation of the government to defended the country against enemies and assure the security of the possessions of his subjects, as well as the obligation of all his subjects to serve in the military in order to enable him to protect them.

                            The country was divided in Kantone (recruiting cantons), which were assigned to a certain regiment. Basically, every male inhabitant was compelled to become a soldier if called for. However, “for the increase of the welfare of the state” there were not a few exceptions made.

                            First, a few territories and some cities cities had inherited the privilege of being completely exempted from conscription. This had to have been granted to them by different Prussian Electors, long before the position of the Prussian kings became more absolute in the 18th century. In 1808 the towns of Berlin, Potsdam, Brandenburg and Breslau were the only remaining parts of the kingdom to still hold this privilege.

                            In the other areas, in which the Kantonreglement was in vigour, there were two classes of men which were freed from conscription: those exempted without condition and those exempted under conditions.

                            Exempted without condition were
                            1.) the full nobility
                            2.) commoner owners of big estates of more than 12.000 Reichstaler value,
                            3.) civil servants,
                            4.) the sons of university professors
                            5.) members of the higher classes of civil servants, and
                            6.) the owners of a fortune of at least 10.000 Reichstaler (as long as they were no craftsmen or peasants) and their sons

                            Foreigners who stayed or settled down in Prussia were exempted as well, together with their sons and servants they had brought with them. If they built a house or cultivated wasteland, all their sons who were born in Prussia, were also exempted.

                            Exempted under conditions were
                            1.) those studying, and
                            2.) those who were active on their own account in commerce or agriculture.

                            In paragraph 14 of the Kantonreglement the conditions were inferred: “in case they rove about, lead an unsteady life or leave their chosen occupation, they return into the liability to serve in the army.” From 24th May 1793 students had to prove their capability to study, as their privilege had been misused.
                            So if a man belonged to a non-exempted class of the population, he was eligible for becoming a soldier. The soldiers were selected by a comittee of officers of the regiment to which the Kanton belonged. Of course, a man could also volunteer and ask to be accepted as soldier. Replacements (one man becoming soldier in the place of another one) were not allowed.

                            If he was regarded apt for it, his service would last until:

                            either

                            - becoming disabled or unfit for military servcie,

                            or

                            - having terminated 20 years of service,

                            or

                            finishing his 45th year of life.

                            In the Prussian army before and after 1806/8, grenadiers were selected just because of their height, and for no other reason. Becoming a grenadier was not a reward for good service, and they did not receive higher pay.

                            Kommentar

                            • DK Young
                              Neuer Benutzer
                              Cantinière
                              • 28.03.2008
                              • 9

                              #29
                              Once again, thank you!!! Your explanation is very helpful in understanding the situation at that time.
                              Kent

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