Bayern Schützen kompagnie

[Kein Prinz]

Hello team,

Two minor but fundamental questions that in simple form I reduce to just one post concerning Bayern schützen kompagnies in fusilier regiments. I am wishing to upgrade some models to a more 'typical' look. I admit my sources are no longer up to date so forgive my concerns.

1 Nafzigers book of 1980 cites the battalions as having one grenadier, and 4 fusilier compangnies- Schützen kompagnie around 1811 gets a plume, but isnt listed in battalion formations before that date. Were schutzen an 'informal' kind of third rank force before 1811?

2 The models I am using (Minifigs- UK) give a mounted officer an epaulette on right shoulder. What does this indicate and is it at all correct for 1805-07 period?

3 Finally, if I could buy Marcus' book I would do so, however it seems OOP now?

Thanks for any assistance- as the figures I purchased are all fusliers, I will merely add plumes busing 'Greenstuff' putty to give a reprentaion of elites,
davew

**Apologies my attempt to translate to German froze on screen, so I have restored to English.**

[vizenz]

Hallo,

1. Die Einführung von Schützen in den Kompanien erfolgte mit Verfügung vom 31.März 1804. Jede der 5 Kompanien sollte 20 Mann auswählen, diese mit gezogenen Flinten ausstatten und als Plänkler einsetzen. Diese Schützen bekamen mit gleichem Datum als besondere Kennzeichnung grüne Huppen zugesprochen.
Am 3.August 1804 wurden jeweils zwei der Regimentsmusiker als Signalgeber bestimmt (mit Dis-Hörnern) diese sollten lange Röcke und Hüte mit grünen Hahnenfedern tragen.
Diese Formation wurde erst 1809 geändert (die Mannstärke pro Kompanie sollte erhöht werden), und schließlich wurden mit Verfügung vom 29.April 1811 die Schützen jeweils eines Bataillons als eigene Kompanie gegliedert. Die Schützenkompanie des I.Bataillons eines Regiments sollte grüne Huppen und die Schützenkompanie des II.Bataillons grün-weiße Huppen tragen. Mit gleichem Datum wurden auch die Uniformen der Signalgeber zu Mannschaftsrock und Kaskett geändert.

2. Ich wusste nicht dass Minifigs frühe Bayern macht? Bayerische Infanterie-Offiziere bekamen die Epauletten erst Mitte 1824. Ich vermute du hast da einen Chevauleger, Dragoner oder Artilleristen als Offizier? Wenn du einen berittenen Offizier im Zeitraum 1805-07 darstellen möchtest solltest du die Schabracke und die Pistolen-Holster Mäntel in der jeweiligen Regimentsfarbe darstellen (das wurde so im August 1803 verfügt). ABER! Ab 1806 gab es in Bayern keine berittenen (Infanterie) Kompanie-Offiziere mehr. Es wurden auch keine Pferdegagen etc. mehr bezahlt. Das beschaffen von Pferden auf eigene Kosten wurde (zum Leidwesen der Offiziere) ausdrücklich verboten. Es sollten ausdrücklich alle Offiziere ab Hauptmann abwärts mit den Mannschaften zu Fuß marschieren.

3. Ich hätte noch eins übrig - Allerdings die deutsche Fassung.

Besten Gruß,
Andreas

___________________

1. The introduction of riflemen (Schützen) into the companies was implemented by decree of March 31, 1804. Each of the five companies was to select 20 men, equip them with rifles, and deploy them as skirmishers. These riflemen were awarded green plumes as a special identification on the same date.
On August 3, 1804, two of the regimental musicians were designated as signalmen (with dis- horns). They were to wear long (musician) uniforms and hats with green rooster feathers.
This formation was not changed until 1809 (the number of men per company was to be increased), and finally, by decree of April 29, 1811, the riflemen of each battalion were organized into a separate company. The rifle company of the 1st Battalion of a regiment was to wear green plumes, and the rifle company of the 2nd Battalion was to wear green-white plumes. On the same date, the signalmen's uniforms were also changed to standard enlisted uniform coat and casquette.

2. I didn't know that Minifigs made early Bavarians? Bavarian infantry officers didn't receive epaulettes until mid-1824. I assume you have a Chevauleger, Dragoon, or Artilleryman as an officer? If you want to depict a mounted officer in the period 1805-07, you should depict the saddlecloth and pistol holster coats in the respective regimental colors (this was decreed in August 1803). BUT! From 1806 onward, there were no longer any mounted (infantry) company officers in Bavaria. Horse food wages, etc., were also no longer paid. Procuring horses at one's own expense was expressly forbidden (much to the chagrin of the officers). All officers from captain downwards were expressly required to march on foot with the men.

3. I have one more - but it's the German version.

[Kein Prinz]

Andreas

Danke, Danke, Danke ‼️

This is exactly the information I wanted as I could not reconcile the mismatch. If GN wrote it, I am sorry I missed the nuance.
I can easily apply a small pompom or plumette to the men, choosing those who already have their bayonet broken off of course!

On the figures- "early" well, shall we say 'typical' and I am not being pedantic about these as much as my French, however if removal of rogue features is necessary, it is not a hard chore. Here are a dragoon and the noted 'staff' officer... both have right shoulder epaulettes.
Here also a snapshot from the famous 1980 catalogue with photos.

Screenshot 2025-06-20 at 11.32.33.png
Please PM me about the book, and we can discuss- with iphone I can probably convert enough text to English easily enough.

Thanks again,
regards and salute!
dave

[vizenz]

Hello Dave,

By "early," I meant primarily the way the backpack was carried on the hip with only one strap. As far as I know, at least in 28mm, no one has yet made the Bavarians from before 1808. Not sure in smaller scales.

The equestrian figures with one epaulette each don't make sense in this context. There was no such thing in Bavaria. Perhaps they were proxies from another nation with a casquette who wore such epaulettes? Did Baden have epaulettes?

Best regards,
Andreas

[Kein Prinz]

Andreas,
Yes quite so, they are not early models at all as you say.
I'm sorry to fail the purist test in this case- I learned from other modelling that the need to use 'stand-ins' when accurate models are not available, is a custom to be adopted when necessary.
Thank you also for the other comments- I will remove the epaulettes before use. I haven't specifically studied other nations forces. It is likely as you say they have been co-opted for use by the makers.

I do habitually use Austrian commanders as stand-ins and add customisation, so will do so for senior commanders like wise for my small Bavarian force. (Actually I do so for the French already)...
An Austrian customised to French:
IMG_6515.jpg
regards dave