Saxon army at Danzig 1807

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  • Sas
    Well my father translated your massage and then I understood it's French version of your last message. Sorry for such mistunderstanding.
    I attach a few more Hovel's paints. I understand that their quality is not good, but these are the only one I have.

    Best Regards and good night
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  • Sas
    I think I was not understood properly. I do not claim that hooking down lapels was French custom, I only say, that Saxons tried to make their uniformes more “Fashionable”. I thik that field dress has to do with general look of the soldier. I think that we cannot separate it. Besides all Sxons tended to dress like French soldiers, even If we agree that they had old-fasioned uniforms. Saxon Rock doesn’t appear for me to be under any influence of modern Russian, British or Austrian uniformes (meaning the cut of Rock)

    It is not a good custom to comment something unknown. So I would not be so quick in critisising Scharnhorst. Contrary to you and me, he has seen Saxon infantry in 1790’s.
    If the only one argument that Saxon clothes were made of better quality “tuch” is that it was ordered to wear these uniformes 3 years instead of 1 year, I must say I’m not civinced. Don’t you think it was far more possible, that trying to reduce costs Saxon Headquater decided to give their soldiers unfirom once 3 years, not once 1 year? It would reduce cost of sewing it, but does it mean that their Rock’s were better than others? I do not think so, perhaps some of the regiments had better Rock’s than other.

    False waistocoat is not waistocoat, but it looks like. I think you have not red my message carefully. I did not say that false waistcoat is waistocoat. I have only said that Saxons had “westen” (waistcoats with Armeln) and contrary to Hess plates they had false waistocoat insted of “camisol” (which is shown on Hess plates). So I did not, as you suggest, defined false waistcoat either by camisol or weste.

    About Kittel - Montbe claims (If you don’t have this book, search in google books) that Kittel was not worn by most of the regiments in 1806 as a result of reduce of cost. I cannot say if it is true or not, I only quote what this authority writes. He also claims that Kittel were given infnatry, when Saxony swiched sides in 1806. So according to Montbe (who writes about Saxons at 1806) and Sauerweid (who presents them in 1809) everything seems to be all right. Hess plates are I think great source of knowladge, but they were made for court, so how Hess could presend soldiers with lack of equipment? Hess in my opinion painted them as they should look, not exactly as they really looked.

    Sorry but I don’t speak French, I will have to ask my father for help, then I will answer your message

    I’m attaching Prussian troops painted by Hovel. I have also attached painting of sige of danzig, made by Philipp Sebastian Rugendas. Look at coloured turnbacks..
    About hovel - my collegue told me that as far as he know, Hovel painted these pictures basing on sketches done during sige. But he also said that it is possible, that these sketches were made after Tilsit.
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  • Fred
    Armée saxonne

    Chers amis, voici ce que j'avais écrit hier soir, en français.
    De toute évidence, nous n'avons pas fini de parler des Saxons !! Je pensais avoir eu connaissance de la plupart des documents sur ce sujet et Sas nous en propose un nouveau, des Schutzen dont je connais en partie la tenue. Formidable!
    En ce qui concerne les uniformes Saxons, il est vrai que les évolutions furent longues et difficiles à accepter; en ce sens, la réforme de 1810 a été une étape fondamentale. Il n'est donc pas anormal de voir des Français se moquer de la tenue désuete des Saxons. En plus, considérant le manque de moyens financiers, il devait être difficile de fournir aux hommes une tenue conforme au règlement. Ce qui explique qu'en campagne et particulièrement celle de 1807, ceux-ci se soient équipés comme ils le pouvaient, d'où ces tenues peu communes. Quant aux modifications coupe de l'habit, elles se comprennent. Etre vêtu d'une tenue anachronique devait être très difficile pour ces pauvres Saxons et s'il était possible de la moderniser un peu, pourquoi pas ? Je ne dis pas que l'influence française a joué en 1806 (encore que nous voyons bien les similitudes entre la tenue des Généraux saxons et celle des Généraux français sous l'Ancien Régime ). par contre, elle est à mon avis flagrante à partir de 1807.
    J'en reste là pour cette soirée. Bonsoir à tous et très sincère amitié

    PS : je crois que l'un dans l'autre, nos analyses respectives sont bonnes, aux vues des sources que nous utilisons chacun de notre côté. Il reste maintenant à en faire la synthèse. Pour ma part, je n'ai pas pu travailler à partir des archives saxonnes (mais on m'a toujours dit qu'elles avaient été détruites pendant la guerre), mais essentiellement à partir des documents de mon ami Emund Wagner, et des documents trouvés à Rastatt.

    PS: I believe that the one in the other one, our respective analyses are good, in the sights of the sources that we use each from our part. It remains now to make the synthesis. For my part, I was not able to work from the Saxon archives (but to I was always told that they had been destroyed{*annulled*} during the war), but essentially from the documents of my friend Emund Wagner, and documents were found to Rastatt.

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  • HKDW

    I comletley disagree, the French were no forerunners in military fashion they were lagging behind, the Austrians, as well as Russians and English had far modern unifroms already in about 1806 than the French.
    Nor was it French style to hook down the lapels as far as possible, the retained their round lapels till late 1813.

    You describe the French field dress which has nothing to do about trend setting.

    I don't know about Scharnhorst comments, but I won't take them that serious, there the Saxon coats by and large represtend the usual coats of that time.

    As Da Capo pointed out - they should last 3 years, an indication of good quality, Prussian coats lasted one year only.

    As for the waistcoats, I think you confuse two items, a false waistcoat is not a waistcoat at all, you see only the lower part of the waistcoat stitched to the coat.

    As for the Kittel, I was under the impression that this was the usual dress of the Saxon infantry in 1806, their coat and over that the Kittel, a nice plate by Sauerweid is available on that topic as well.

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  • Sas
    Hello everyone,

    Unfortunatelly I do not understand even a word In French (my father does but it’s hard to ask him for help), so Fred please wirte in French, and use the translation program, then everyone will be happy
    And drifting from the main topic. I think that of course Saxon uniforms were different from French, but manner in wich they were worn was I think consequence of fashion of that period. Frenchmen were “spiritus movens” of these changes, loose white trousers, white linien gaiters worn under trousers, lapels festen as far as possible, bicorns worn across head, that’s all was I think result of French influence.
    I agree with Fred that Saxons tried to do as much as possible to make their uniforms more fashionable. As I red in Funck’s memoires, Saxon officers suffered much from old-style uniform, so I think it was very common to make some changes in uniform.
    Of course I agree with De Capo about Austrian influence.

    De Capo
    Here I must repeat my questions to the producing year of the drawing and the artist(s) (drawn and coloured at the same time or in different).”
    I promisse I will ask my collegue. Perhaps it’s like you said - Saxons wich were garnissoned in Danzig, and recived French-style uniformes. Or maybe they were sewed uniforms, based on Prussian because of Rocks kept in Prussian stores.

    Interestng is what you have written about Saxon waistcoat’s. About wich waistcoat we are talking about? Because as it is shown on Hess pictures, soldiers could possibly wear two types - one without “armeln” and one without “armeln”. The first one as my “prussian collegues” persuaded me, was called “camisol”, the second one was “weste”. About “weste” (using this definition) writes Scharnhorst in 1791, claiming that Saxons wore them under “Rock” in order to feel more comfortable during bad weather. If I red old-german text correctly he also states that Saxon uniforms were the worst he has ever seen (considering comfort and practice). He doesn’t say even a word about “camisol”. What’s more on this topic, I have found Montbes remark, that Saxons had false wasitcoats (perhaps I did not understand him well) in order to save as much money as possible. It’s contrary to Hess plate were we can see soldiers both in “weste” and in “camisol”. On the other hand in mr Montbes work or in Scharnhorst article, as an equipment only “weste” is mentioned, nothing at all about “camisol”. What do you think about it? Mayby I just did not understand german text, but it’s I think interesting conception.
    My theory is that, officially Saxon infantrymen should have both “camisol” and “weste” (as it was in ingeneering troops - as I can see on Muller’s plates), but I think that Inhabers did whatever they could to reduce costs (Montbe says, that most of the regiments in 1806 did not have “Kittel” as a result of reducing costs), so perhaps some regiments have only westen, camisol’s were “false” sewed in Rock. But that’s only my theory, you have better sources than me, so please correct me if I’m wrong.

    Sorry for drifting from the topic, but I usually have no one to consult about Saxons so I’m hungry of information

    Best Regards

    P.S. Motnbes remark about waistocoats is on page 34 under the text.

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  • HKDW
    Da Capo

    Of course I agree that the 1807 uniform should be pretty much the same as 1806 - with Kittel?

    Then in 1808 - Weiland - there seems to start the transisional period, standing collar, coat hooked down as much as possible, and finally the back packs on the back and then also the sabre belt worn over the shoulder.

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  • Da Capo
    Let us remember the start point. I understood that we have a drawing probably showing Saxon infantry in 1807 near Danzig. At the moment we discuss the outlook of the Saxon army in the 1809 campaign. We shall not mix this.
    For the 1807 campaign Saxony have had a lot of problems to bring the demanded troops in the field. Nearly 100% of the cavalry horses were stolen by the French and a lot of guns and wagons were still captured. The French occupying power (they leaved the territory of the alliance partner Saxony not before 1810!), their occupation of the main depots and main assembly points of the army and – not to forget – their demands for money, food etc. made the whole things not easier.
    So it has a very very low possibility that the Saxon troops received uniforms with a new style (f.e. standing up collars) for the 1807 campaign.
    The Saxon infantry uniform was made from a much better cloth than that in the Prussian army and the Saxons have had a real waistcoat. The wearing time for this uniform was 3 years.
    It is nearly sure that the Saxon troops going in the 1807 campaign with the same uniforms and the same equipment which they having in the 1806 campaign already. I have found no real sources to proof an opposite opinion. But I must also say that until today I have not the time to check the (if really existing!) documents in the Hauptstaatsarchiv in Dresden for the 1807 campaign because my main point over the last five years were the historical background for the tin figure diorama to the battle of nations and the Saxon Artillery.

    Talking about an influence of the Saxon uniform style than we may not forget the Austrian Influence (see Grenadier caps).

    Standing at 1807 and Danzig than it is clear that the Howel drawing showing what ever but no Saxon infantry during the siege of Danzig in 1807.
    We must remember at this place that Saxon Infantry units were part of the occupying forces in the former Prussian fortresses Danzig and Glogau and marched from there in the 1812 campaign. These troops were organized and exercised after French regulations. So an influence on the Uniform style is possible. Here I must repeat my questions to the producing year of the drawing and the artist(s) (drawn and coloured at the same time or in different).

    For 1809 I must contact my sources but this is a little different in case of a big lack in time. Sorry.

    HKW – A bread bag was no official equipment in the Saxon army before 1810.

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  • HKDW

    In case you use a translation program - it is better you write in French - this I understand much better than this English translation, donc alors encore une fois en francaise stp.

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  • Fred
    Armée saxonne

    Good evening!
    Certainly, we did not stop discussing Saxons!! I thought of knowing most of the documents on this subject, and kept silent proposes it to us of new, Schutzen the holding{*dress*} of which is me only partially known. Formidable!
    As regards the Saxon uniforms, it is true that the long and difficult evolutions were to accept; this way, the reform of 1810 was a fundamental stage. It is not thus abnormal to see Frenchmen laughing at the désuete holding{*dress*} of the Saxons. Besides, considering the lack of financial means, he was to be difficult to supply to the men{*people*} a holding{*dress*} corresponding to the regulation{*payment*}. What explains that in campaign, and especially from 1807, these equip themselves as he could him{*it*}, where from these unusual dresses. As for the modifications in the cup{*cutting*} of the dress, they understand. To carry{*wear*} an anachronistic holding{*dress*} was to be very painful for these poor Saxons, and if it was possible to modernize her{*it*} a little, why not? I do not say that the French influence played in 1806 (still that we see well the resemblances between the holding{*dress*} of the General Saxon and that of the French Generals under the Ancient Régime). On the other hand, she{*it*} is blatant from 1807.
    I stay there there for this evening. Good evening in all and in very sincere friendship

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  • HKDW
    Sauerwied published two series about the Saxon campaign of 1809, one published in 1809, the other in 1810, he is very precise for a lot of details and very convincing.
    In Hull - obviously copies of this series was made - with changes.

    Markus should visit the best collection in private hand for such cases, Edmund Wagner - who could show all those variations, both Hess and Sauerweid confirm the white turnbacks.

    Sauerweid is not showing any bread bags (which were common in the Prussian and Russian Army) for 1809.

    The coat, as Frederic describes (and I did already before) is closed down as much as possible to the front - but shows a small split at the belly, nicely observed by Sauerweid.

    As for collars, Sauerweid shows standing collars.

    I cannot see any influence of the French uniform style at all for the Prussians and Saxons in 1806, it is completly different, like in the Prussian army the so called open collar - difference to French Army, were it was closed, also the hanger around the waist - just to give some examples, the Saxon army had some unique features like the unique pistol / cartridge pouch for NCOs in 1806 not to speak about the side arms, sword knots according to companies and so on.
    Also bear in mind that the Saxon Army did fight in 1806 in the so called Kittel, quite unique for a army of that time and - quite special as well.

    Altfränkisch cut - means cut as the French Army (or French Royal Army, but in fact there is no great difference between the cut of the French tunic of 1789 or 1796) which was lagging behind all the rest of the infantry - the French infantry retained a very old fashioned out look in 1806 / 07 - while the rest went for simplified uniforms.

    The Saxon Army of 1809 was in a transition copying the "new" French outlook (which the French introduced only in autumn 1813), some units had already shakos like the artillery, look again at Sauerweid plates of the 1809 campaign.

    Also Weiland shows quite a good Saxon musketeer close to the 1809 time, with standing up collar and white turnbacks.

    As for the immages Frederick supplied - on Sauerweid's plates I cannot see any horizontal strap conecting the carrying straps of the back pack - I am not aware that the Saxons had this in 1809 and I am missing the NCO stick.

    Hopefully Da Capo - one of the best experts on the Saxon Army will comment on this as well.

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  • Sas
    Thank you very much for answers!

    “Did you check the different contemporary sources, I published about the Saxon army of 1806?”
    Ye I did. I have very carefully studied all these paintings, I have also consulted with Reinhold Muller’s pictures, Knotel, and much more drawings wich authors are not known.

    “do you have colour pictures of it? And is it possible to publish the complete series? Of course I'd pay the costs for the (digital) images to the museum or archive in Danzig/Gdansk ... and: are there more uniform series?”

    I don’t have coloured version of Hovel’s pictures. Blac-white copy was given me by my collegue who works for Danzig museum. If you want I may give you contact to him. As far as I know, the series includes Saxon, Baden, Polish and French troops, but perhaps there is something more. I must admit I don’t know. But my collegue does If you want contact him please inform me in pv Oh and don’t worry he speaks English very well.

    I agree with all your remarks. I was very suspicious about the picutre, for me it seems not realible. I’m attaching Howels Polish troops. Exept for stranghe Greatcoat with huge buttons it seems to be quite normal.
    I must admit, that saxon uniformes of 1809 campaign were unknown to me. I have only few pitures of Saxon infantry of this time (attached - see especially Saxon “schutzen” - they look ennormusly).
    Unfortunatelly I cannnot answer all your doubts, my collegue claims, that the author was a French soldier who participated at the sige of Danzig, and that he make whole series of such paintings. Perhaps he’s wrong, mayby that Hovel paitnted them after 1807 campaign, and drawed Saxon troops as he remembered them.
    Thak you for tables! I must admit that I’m suprised by the fact, that these uniformes have standing coolar. As for Hess plates, and copy of original Rock, I was given, it was obvious for me that their collars were rolled down and festen under lapels. I thought that standing collars were worn only by officers (according to Hess plates). But perhaps it was common to “unfesten” collars, and to roll them up.
    And one more remark. As far as I know, Saxon troops like all of the armies, apart from “Knapsack” in “campaign uniform” wore linien sack (I don’t know haw to say it in English or German) placed under Knapsack, so on te left shoulder I think should be places two stripes.

    And one more thing. I have found memoires of Polish soldier, who served in Saxon army during 1809 campaign. He served in Inginieur Corps, and then he transferred to Garde du Corps. He describes that when his French collegue saw him, he was laughing because of his old-fashioned uniform wich remembered times of Louis XV (whats interesting he describes very carefully Prussian uniform, claimig for eg. that they woer “false waistcoats”). Scharnhorst in his article (dated on 1791) also states that Saxons had old fashined, unpractical uniformes of “Altfrankisch” cut (whatever AltFrankisch means).

    You have said that Saxons in 1806 camapign were under French influence. I think that even Prussian army of these times was under French ifluence, even more than Saxony. The had shorter turnbacks, standing collars, straight lapels, as far as I know tehre were even plans of replacing bicorns by shakos (but campaign of 1806 has scrapped these plans ). Saxony I think was very resistent in introducing new uniformes. As I read in Funck’s memoires Saxon courthouse was very closed for any innovation, every exeption from regulated uniform was penalised.

    Best Regards
    Janek Snopkiewicz

    Link to Polish uniformes by Hovel:
    Unlimited space to host images, easy to use image uploader, albums, photo hosting, sharing, dynamic image resizing on web and mobile.
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  • Fred
    Réponse à Capo (Suite)

    D'après le journal du Lieutenant Moritz :
    Etat général des différentes parties du Corps d’armée de Sa Majesté le Roi de Saxe qui composent le contingent destiné à joindre la Grande Armée.

    Commandant en Chef, Lieutenant général von Polenz.
    Aides de camp, Major et Quartier maître von Egidy, Capitaine von Gersdorff.
    Brigade major, Lieutenant von Geobrig.
    Adjoint, Lieutenant Moritz.
    Total Etat-major général : 22 hommes et 7 chevaux..

    1ère Brigade : Commandant en Chef, Major général von Oebschelwitz.
    Aide de camp, Capitaine von Hacke.
    Officier d’ordonnance, Lieutenant von Langenau.
    - Bataillon de grenadiers von Cerrini, Major von Cerrini, 601 hommes.
    - 1er bataillon du Régiment Bevilaqua, Colonel von Hartitzsch, 601 hommes.
    - Régiment Prinz Anton, Lieutenant colonel Müller von Berneck, 1195 hommes[5].
    2ème Brigade : Commandant en Chef, Major général von Glaffey.
    Aide de camp, Lieutenant Roitzsch.
    Officier d’ordonnance, Lieutenant Roos.
    - Bataillon de grenadiers von Süssmilch, Major von Süssmilch, 601 hommes.
    - Régiment von Sänger, Colonel von Larisch, 1197 hommes.
    - 2ème bataillon du Régiment Prinz Maximilian, Lieutenant colonel Vogel, 598 hommes.
    Total de l’infanterie : 4793 hommes.
    Brigade de cavalerie : Major général von Besser :
    - 4 escadrons des Cuirassiers du Roi, sous le Lieutenant-colonel Petrikowski, 687 hommes et 649 chevaux.
    - 1 escadron des Chevau-légers Prinz Johann, sous le Major von Schindler, 199 hommes et 190 chevaux.
    Total de cavalerie : 886 hommes et 839 chevaux.
    Artillerie :
    - 1ère Batterie, sous le capitaine Kirstein, 75 hommes, 4 pièce de 8 et 2 obusiers de 4.
    - 2ème batterie, sous le Capitaine Sander, 75 hommes, 4 pièces de 8 et 2 obusiers de 4.
    - Parc de Réserve : 150 hommes.
    Total de l’artillerie : 300 hommes.

    A cet effectif, il faut ajouter les différents Trains :
    - Etat-major général : 9 hommes et 15 chevaux.
    - Infanterie : 52 hommes et 184 chevaux.
    - Cavalerie : 14 hommes et 36 chevaux.
    Artillerie : 289 hommes et 549 chevaux.
    Administration : 125 hommes et 248 chevaux.
    Total des Trains : 489 hommes et 1032 chevaux.
    [5] D’après l’Historique Régimentaire, le Régiment, depuis le 1er février, faisait partie de la Brigade du Général major von Glaffey. "Geschichte 4. Infanterie Regiments N° 103», Dresde, 1909.

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  • Fred
    Réponse à Capo

    Bonjour Capo
    A qui s'adresse votre réponse ? A Sas ou à moi ? Dans le deuxième cas, nos conclusions se recoupent, ce qui confirme le fait que :
    1/ Il faut voir le document en couleur
    2/ Le reste de la série doit également être analysé pour vérifier sa fiabilité.

    Hello Capo
    Whom addresses your answer? In Sas or in me? In the second case, our conclusions confirm each other, what confirms the fact that:
    1/It is necessary to see the document in colour
    2/The rest of the series must be also analyzed to verify its reliability.

    Troupes ayant pris par à la campagne de 1807.
    D’après Sauzey étaient prévues les troupes suivantes, soit deux brigades sous les Généraux Majors von Oebschelwitz et von Glaffey[1] :
    - 8 Bataillons d’infanterie à environ 640 hommes chacun :
    - Bataillon de grenadiers von Süssmilch[2], (Prinz Clemens et Oebschelwitz).
    - Bataillon de grenadiers von Cerrini[3], (von Sänger et von Low).
    - 2 bataillons Prinz Anton, sous le Colonel Müller von Berneck.
    - 2 bataillons von Sänger, sous le Colonel von Larisch.
    - 2ème bataillon Prinz Maximilian sous le Lieutenant colonel Vogel.
    - 1er bataillon von Bevilaqua, sous le Colonel von Hartitzsch.
    - 5 escadrons de cavalerie à environ 150 hommes chacun :
    - Cuirassiers König (ex Kurfürst Kürassiers), 4 escadrons, sous le Colonel Petrikowski.
    - Escadron combiné de Chevau-légers sous les ordres du Major von Schindler, composé de 90 hommes des Chevau-légers Prinz Johann, 60 hommes des Chevau-légers von Polenz.
    - 1 détachement d'artillerie (2 batteries, sous les ordres des Capitaines Kirstein et Sander), 12 canons.

    D’après l’ouvrage de Heinrich August Verlohren : "Stammregister un Chronik der Kur und Königlich Sächsischen Armee, von 1670 bis zum Regim des Zwamzigstem Jahrhunderts", Carl Beck, Leipzig, 1910, nous avons pu établir une liste des Corps qui auraient participé à la campagne de 1807. Il s’agit de :
    - Bataillon de grenadiers von Süssmilch (Prinz Clemens et Oebschelwitz).
    - Bataillon de grenadiers von Cerrini (von Sänger et von Low).
    - 2 bataillons Prinz Anton à Danzig. Les grenadiers sont en Silésie au sein du Bataillon de grenadiers von Steindel.
    - 2ème bataillon Prinz Maximilian sous le Lieutenant colonel Vole, à Danzig.
    - 2 bataillons von Sänger à Danzig.
    - 1 bataillon de von Low en Silésie, le 2ème étant affecté à la garde de la frontière. Grenadiers en Silésie, au sein du Bataillon de Grenadiers von Steindel.
    - 2 bataillons de Niesemeuschel.
    - Régiment König : Garnison de Dresde. Les mousquetaires gardent les frontières de la Silésie.

    Pas de traces du Régiment Bevilaqua. Celui-ci est pourtant donné comme faisant également partie du Corps de Lannes, après la prise de Danzig et la dissolution du Corps de Lefebvre.
    Il faut aussi ajouter qu’un escadron des Gardes du Corps, trois escadrons des Chevau-légers Prinz Johann sous les ordres du Colonel Feilitzsch furent détachés pour assurer la surveillance et la couverture de la frontière silésienne. Toutes les troupes désignées pour cette mission, d’ailleurs, regagnèrent leurs garnisons au début du mois d’août.
    En fait, pour la cavalerie, vers la fin de décembre 1806, 4 escadrons saxons, soit 3 de cuirassiers et 1 de chevau-légers, avaient été attachés à la Division d'Oudinot. Cette division arriva à Posen, où se réunissaient les troupes saxonnes, le 1er janvier. Ces troupes constituèrent par la suite la Division Polenz. Il faut noter que dans l’Historique Régimentaire du Régiment d’infanterie Prinz Maximilian, on trouve 4 escadrons au Régiment de Cuirassiers König[4].

    [1] Sauzey a utilisé comme source l’ouvrage de Schuster et Francke : «Geschichte der Sächsischen Armee», volume III.

    [2] Plus tard, Bataillon von Winkelmann.

    [3] Plus tard, Bataillon von Larisch.

    [4] "Geschichte des Königl. Sächs. 6. Infanterie Regiments N° 105 und seine Vorgeschichte 1701-1887", Leipzig, 1887.

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  • Da Capo
    The drawing is underlined with Saxon infantry but it shows – like HKW wrote already - a Prussian style.

    All original Uniforms of this time have white turnbacks (because the lining is white) and a white dragoon only on the left shoulder. The lapels are only closed between the collar and the middle of the breast. The collar lied down.

    The drawing shows fully closed lapels (the first reports of closed lapels coming out of the 1809 campaign, as you can see on your second plate), coloured turnbacks, coloured dragoons on both shoulders and a stand up collar.
    The sword belt is wearing over the coat (unusual in the Saxon army and to imitate the French they should wear the sword belt over the right shoulder like they done this in the 1809 campaign). You see no waistcoat which you must see.
    The sword seems to be the Mle.1808 (for musketeers). In the Saxon infantry only ranks worn the sword tassel (possibly Gefreite worn the tassel).
    I cannot indentify the plate on the cartridge box. It seems to be a little similar to the box plates of the Grenadier Guard from 1810. Musketeers have had no plates.

    To bring this black and white drawing in the right context it is necessary to know:
    When had the artist drawn this?
    When was the drawing coloured and who did it?
    Which troops were at this time in or near Danzig?

    If you cannot answer these questions you cannot use this drawing as a source.

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  • Fred
    Armée Saxonne suite

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